Comments on: THE WHOLE F-ING POINT OF THE STRUGGLE WAS THAT OUR KIDS COULD GROW UP WATCHING DSTV INSTEAD OF GETTING SHOT IN THE FACE IN SHARPVILLE! http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/ Jonathan Endersby, Recovering Technologist Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:15:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: arbitrary user » 2008 in review. http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-26542 arbitrary user » 2008 in review. Mon, 05 Jan 2009 05:40:45 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-26542 [...] started writing about politics [...] [...] started writing about politics [...]

]]> By: Global Voices Online » South Africa: We’ll argue with our parents and play video games! http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-5993 Global Voices Online » South Africa: We’ll argue with our parents and play video games! Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:00:12 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-5993 [...] have expressed their resentment in other ways such as arbitrary user with his post “THE WHOLE F-ING POINT OF THE STRUGGLE WAS THAT OUR KIDS COULD GROW UP WATCHING [...] [...] have expressed their resentment in other ways such as arbitrary user with his post “THE WHOLE F-ING POINT OF THE STRUGGLE WAS THAT OUR KIDS COULD GROW UP WATCHING [...]

]]> By: tash http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-4864 tash Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:27:16 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-4864 For the record I have a soon to be 5 year old (10 March) and I can tell you that she would neither understand nor care about any oath, to her it will be a bunch of words that she has to stand up and say every day. I know this because she told me this evening that they sing the school song every week in assembly, so I asked her to sing it to me and guess what .... she could not! "I don't know mom but when the other kids sing it then I can remember it" so I asked her what it means to her and she looked at me like I was totally mad and promptly changed the subject! Siobhan is actually a bright kid and very aware of what is going on around her but after a couple of months of singing a song at school it means nothing to her! So really don't stress too much guys. I think that the kids may take something out of saying an oath every day but certainely not at age 6. I will reserve my comment until I actually see the oath and depending on the content will then join the debate. For the record I have a soon to be 5 year old (10 March) and I can tell you that she would neither understand nor care about any oath, to her it will be a bunch of words that she has to stand up and say every day.

I know this because she told me this evening that they sing the school song every week in assembly, so I asked her to sing it to me and guess what …. she could not! “I don’t know mom but when the other kids sing it then I can remember it” so I asked her what it means to her and she looked at me like I was totally mad and promptly changed the subject! Siobhan is actually a bright kid and very aware of what is going on around her but after a couple of months of singing a song at school it means nothing to her!

So really don’t stress too much guys. I think that the kids may take something out of saying an oath every day but certainely not at age 6. I will reserve my comment until I actually see the oath and depending on the content will then join the debate.

]]> By: jp http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-4651 jp Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:29:21 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-4651 I am all for focusing on a positive future of course, but ignoring the past, well without constantly remembering the past we become deemed to repeat its mistakes... I just can't understand why it is wrong for children to know this country has not had the best history? It does not make sense to me. I am all for focusing on a positive future of course, but ignoring the past, well without constantly remembering the past we become deemed to repeat its mistakes…

I just can’t understand why it is wrong for children to know this country has not had the best history? It does not make sense to me.

]]> By: arbitraryuser http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-4631 arbitraryuser Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:25:12 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-4631 Jonx, you seem to be missing my point repeatedly... The content of the oath is fine -- if it is something that is not mandatory and that the children understand. A 6 year old doesn't understand or know what the injustices of the past are. If asked I would definitely tell a slightly toned down version of those injustices, but I would also definitely educate them and continue educating them with age appropriate material as they grow up... However, I would hope like hell that my 6 year old is too busy running away from girls and playing soccer to be worrying about those injustices. Plus, like many others have pointed out, why not focus on the positive future? Jonx, you seem to be missing my point repeatedly… The content of the oath is fine — if it is something that is not mandatory and that the children understand. A 6 year old doesn’t understand or know what the injustices of the past are. If asked I would definitely tell a slightly toned down version of those injustices, but I would also definitely educate them and continue educating them with age appropriate material as they grow up… However, I would hope like hell that my 6 year old is too busy running away from girls and playing soccer to be worrying about those injustices.

Plus, like many others have pointed out, why not focus on the positive future?

]]> By: jp http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-4630 jp Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:17:51 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-4630 The oath does not say that in 1960 white policeman shot and killed black children because they were black... In fact all it says is that that our country has a history of injustice, and that in future we want to uphold the rights given to us in our constitution. Which in slightly simpler terms, though not by much, pretty much means, In the past our country was horrible to people who were different from you and now we believe that we should be nice... and I personally can't find anything wrong with that. People should remember, no matter what age, that injustices were done in the past. Is your problem the idea, that after saying the pledge, your child might come home and say, "Daddy, what injustices were done in the past?", and you might actually have to answer? The oath does not say that in 1960 white policeman shot and killed black children because they were black…

In fact all it says is that that our country has a history of injustice, and that in future we want to uphold the rights given to us in our constitution. Which in slightly simpler terms, though not by much, pretty much means, In the past our country was horrible to people who were different from you and now we believe that we should be nice…

and I personally can’t find anything wrong with that.

People should remember, no matter what age, that injustices were done in the past.

Is your problem the idea, that after saying the pledge, your child might come home and say, “Daddy, what injustices were done in the past?”, and you might actually have to answer?

]]> By: arbitraryuser http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-4629 arbitraryuser Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:01:04 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-4629 JP, not at 6. I think education is always about age appropriateness. At 6 I can tell you that it's not nice to be horrible to people who are different to you. But I'm not going to tell my non-existant 6 year old that in 1960 white policemen shot and killed black children because, well, basically because they were black; I run the risk of that child being confused and upset, not only by the violence, but also by the notion that people like him did such horrible stuff to people just like his friends in school. I am not for a second suggesting that we shelter our kids from the past... I actually want our past to be more aggressively taught in schools. BUT, it has to be age appropriate and it needs to be done solemnly... An oath you recite 11880 times because you *have* to is not solemn and runs the risk of becoming a mockery. JP, not at 6.

I think education is always about age appropriateness. At 6 I can tell you that it’s not nice to be horrible to people who are different to you.

But I’m not going to tell my non-existant 6 year old that in 1960 white policemen shot and killed black children because, well, basically because they were black; I run the risk of that child being confused and upset, not only by the violence, but also by the notion that people like him did such horrible stuff to people just like his friends in school.

I am not for a second suggesting that we shelter our kids from the past… I actually want our past to be more aggressively taught in schools. BUT, it has to be age appropriate and it needs to be done solemnly…

An oath you recite 11880 times because you *have* to is not solemn and runs the risk of becoming a mockery.

]]> By: Jonathan2 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-4627 Jonathan2 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:41:33 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-4627 I don't like the proposed oath either. It focusses on negative things from the past, instead of positive things from the future. I don’t like the proposed oath either. It focusses on negative things from the past, instead of positive things from the future.

]]> By: jp http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-4626 jp Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:33:01 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-4626 So what is the right age to learn about the injustices of the past? So what is the right age to learn about the injustices of the past?

]]> By: phillygirl http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/comment-page-1/#comment-4619 phillygirl Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:15:55 +0000 http://www.arbitraryuser.com/blog/2008/02/21/the-whole-f-ing-point-of-the-struggle-was-that-our-kids-could-grow-up-watching-dstv-instead-of-getting-shot-in-the-face-in-sharpville/#comment-4619 Love that more appropriate oath you came up with :) Pahahahhaha Love that more appropriate oath you came up with :) Pahahahhaha

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